4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

All about Tajikistan. Expert: Pamirski, Christian77
bwv812
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby bwv812 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:48 pm

mazeno wrote:> You are dragging in all kinds of subjects
maybe because it is a forum (discussion), not a notice board ("i'm looking for a travelmate bla-bla").


Which explains why you told me to not to make "politically correct" analogies on this forum (apparently it is politically correct to say that risks of terrorism are higher in Tajikistan than in Europe).


mazeno wrote:the problem is not that it is "an isolated", "grassroot", "secular tajikistan" or so.
the problem is that public opinion tolerate the fact of terrorism.
people just get used to terrorists.
and are doing nothing about it.
just drawing with crayons on their streets and telling tearful stories about tolerance.


Let me remind you what you told me earlier: the subject is 4 people killed in Tajikistan, not western tolerance to terrorism.

By the way, those living in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention Yemen and Somalia, would probably suggest that the world isn't just sitting there drawing with crayons on their streets and telling stories about tolerance when it comes to terrorism.
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby mazeno » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:39 am

> apparently it is politically correct to say that risks of terrorism are higher in Tajikistan than in Europe
and who wrote it?

> the subject is 4 people killed in Tajikistan, not western tolerance to terrorism.
it is still connected and hardly related (car accidents are not).
the quantity of terrorist attacks (all over the world) is a result of western tolerance.
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby bwv812 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:19 pm

mazeno wrote:> apparently it is politically correct to say that risks of terrorism are higher in Tajikistan than in Europe
and who wrote it?


You did.

mazeno wrote:
bwv812 wrote:Mazeno, the logic was that a terrorist attack can happen anywhere, so everywhere is equally risky. I just said that car accidents can happen anywhere, but we tend not to think of all places as equally risky when it comes to driving.

just don't be too much politically correct.


mazeno wrote:[> the subject is 4 people killed in Tajikistan, not western tolerance to terrorism.
it is still connected and hardly related (car accidents are not).


Sorry, but the thread is actually about the risk of terrorism. An analogy to how things can happen everywhere, but that the risk of them happening in some places is higher in some places than others is much more relevant than your political, sanctimonious, and factually questionable hijacking of this thread.

mazeno wrote:the quantity of terrorist attacks (all over the world) is a result of western tolerance.


Really? Is that why most terrorism incidents are not in the west but in other places? I guess places like Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, etc. are all very, very tolerant of terrorism since most terror attacks in the world happen there. Maybe you should get on your soapbox and tell us that they shouldn't be so tolerant of terror attacks. You know, because this is apparently a thread where it's relevant to discuss such things.
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby Lovetheworld » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:58 pm

mazeno wrote:
[i]> You are dragging in all kinds of subjects

maybe because it is a forum (discussion), not a notice board ("i'm looking for a travelmate bla-bla").


I can drag in all kinds of subjects, like when it is full moon, but what point is it if it is unrelated?

In my opinion, all I see you do is make assumptions and applying your view, which is not helping.

Anyway I have travelled in Pakistan and that is much more of a mess. I don't see that as a safe country.
However I still see the Stans as safe countries to travel through, and this attack doesn't immediatly change that.

Maybe one more attack and I start to see it differently.
What I mean is I see no pattern yet.

I still see the real danger of travelling in other things like car accidents.
While in the Stans I heard about two separate accidents with cyclists. One died, the other in a coma. To me that risk seems higher, but I don't have any numbers to back that.
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby mazeno » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:20 am

> You did.
oh, really?
quotation, please.
i didn't compare if the risk in asia is higher than in europe. i wrote about the causation of terrorism, which is not simply and one (about reasons in central asia i wrote here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5576&start=20#p19334 ). and about the tolerance to terrorism, which results terrorism growing.

> the risk of them happening in some places is higher in some places than others
yes, and tjk is not free at all of the risk, too.

> terrorism incidents
wonderful term.
copy-paste from mainstream.
similarly as taking about car accidents in the case of terror attacks.
example: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38377428
in the headtitle - a loory has attacked, not an islamic state terrorist, but a lorry itself.
that's pure propaganda language.
and that's the western tolerance i wrote about.

> Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, etc.
i can write much more countries, e.g. rca, mali, niger, rsa.

ok, i will try more clearly.
the tolerance is an alibi for the govs to do nothing (or do things that are convenient for them). it doesn't matter if in rca or france as we live in one "global village". no country is a lone island, richer/powerful countries usually press on the others (politically, economically) - but sometimes it is not good business for many reasons (again look here viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5576&start=20#p19334 ). reacher/powerful countries will keep this status quo for their conveniece. and i don't event want to think if some govs do it against us (e.g. when i see what mrs. merkel is doing).
but some day this can change. in europe is changing quickly, now. in bad way.
and did you have done anything about it?
except drawing or making your fb profile in french/other flag colors?
e.g. did you press your local gov to eliminate terrorists in your country? did you voted for free acces to the weapon (a terrorist always has illegal weapon and you don't have any) and unlimited defence? did you pressed the gov not to invite so-called refugees as there comes mainly young healthy men who take grants - of our taxes - for doing nothing or doing bad things (german police seeks for more than 126.000 criminals for the deportation among the refugees according to the report of armin schuster, chief of bundeskriminatamt. and cannot find. funny, as they are in the refugee camps...).

> Maybe one more attack and I start to see it differently
ok, let's wait and do nothing.
as next people are killed.
and next.
and next.
and than let's change our fb profile to tajik flag.
it will help us a lot.
yeah...


if anybody comes to my home with the gun - i will not search for the crayons, i will shot him.
this is my duty to my family.
that's the only answer for terrorism.
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby Lovetheworld » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:07 am

Well they are all shot dead, so then it must be a good ending for you and you can sleep nicely?
It is not the real answer because just a few were killed, and ironically YOU are the one who is dragging in half the planet and suggesting there will be more than this attack. So I guess that proves the point it is not solved with a gun..

The whole story about guns is irrelevant, we are talking about tourism, you don't just take a gun on holiday.
So is the stuff about your local government.
If my home country would be completely free from terrorism than it doesn't make a difference at all to this story and Tajikistan.
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby mazeno » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:04 am

> it must be a good ending for you and you can sleep nicely?
should i cry after a terrorist dead?
it must be a good ending and someone can sleep nicely after its family/friends get killed by a terrorist and he did nothing.

> the point it is not solved with a gun
so with what?
with crayons?
of course, if you can kill with it (e.g. by sticking in the eye - see krav maga, principle 3 and 4).
while travelling you can also defence youself, not only with a gun.
even cyclist have close at hand things they can use for defence: bike pump, bikes, stones...
but - what is most important - you have to keep a will to defence.
not to be passive.
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby Lovetheworld » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:21 pm

Wtf are you trying to say? These cyclists could never defend themselves, they got runover by a car!

And you are missing the point about the killed terrorists. You',re suggesting there is a huge problem with terrorism and it seems like Tadjikistan is down the drain too, so you know it is not solved by killing some terrorists.
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby mazeno » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:40 pm

i'm saying no one defended against the terrorists.
no one helped the ciclist while the action.
no passing car crashed into the terrorist car.
no one even tried to do anything.
a witness just filmed.
just filmed.

remember berlin attack?
if the kidnapped polish driver lukasz urban woudn't try to fight, there could be more victims (he got many injuries of a knife, finally he was shot by a terrorist).
he tried.
but it is an exception, unfortunately.
people usually don't react.
just fuckin* filming.

because people get used to terrorist attacks.

---
* - acording to your "wtf".
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Re: 4 cyclists killed in Tajikistan

Postby mazeno » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:54 pm

finally we moved again to the tjk cyclists casus - but i'm talking generally about possibility of selfdefence.
this is our basic right - to defence our lives, using every possible means.
every.
including the death of attacker, too.

our basic right which we actually don't use.
we, the modern people.
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